Curse

Numa Pompilius · Jan 06, 2006, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baratus

I do believe that when a lv13 Mo/N can take down six to nine of those Caromi near the New Ascalon settlement and a lv20 W/Mo cannot, even with max damage sword, Drok's armor, and max shield, that something is seriously wrong.

Although I agree that monks are almost ridiculously uber in PvE (do more damage and tank better than any other class), I think I should tell you that I've been farming those caromi tengu with my W/Mo the last few days. I go from Beetletun to Hot Springs, killing all Ettin & tengu in my way... The key is protecting your enchantments with a "garbage" enchantment, because the Wild will shatter enchant; I fire off a Healing Breeze then charge the Wild.

Baratus · Jan 06, 2006, 08:05 AM // 08:05

I have to take that comment back to an extent, Numa. I tried tonight for laughs and amazingly I could take down three at a time, but it was DAMN close. My monk can destroy them now though, since he's ascended. I mean he can take three or four groups with ease. I find that SO wrong. The warrior should be toughest, most damage-dealing person since he has to get up close, but is susceptable to magic because of it.

Manic Smile · Jan 06, 2006, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by KANE OG

Manic, maybe you're talking in general, but I never said I wanted to stop playing either. My opinion is that if there is a problem with bots, destroy them. There is no need to constantly change the game mechanics (we've seen in Augury Rock that this doesn't work anyway.) This is one of the best games of all time IMO, pre or post "nerf" patch. My question still stands, why should I be punished by having to change or adjust a build that I enjoy playing the way it is because of bots?

With that point I agree...and if that is the sole case you shouldn't...but it's not like this isn't true in life as well. The idiots/aholes always muck up the fun for the rest of us. Why should I need a virus scanner or microsoft updates...oh i can go on with things that annoy me that are due to a minoritie's selfishness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baratus

I have to take that comment back to an extent, Numa. I tried tonight for laughs and amazingly I could take down three at a time, but it was DAMN close. My monk can destroy them now though, since he's ascended. I mean he can take three or four groups with ease. I find that SO wrong. The warrior should be toughest, most damage-dealing person since he has to get up close, but is susceptable to magic because of it.

Elemental resistance? Only nec mez mob combos are annoying. MENDING FTW!

CyberNigma · Jan 06, 2006, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Please forgive me if I do this wrong, this is my first post. Also, this isn't intended to attack Manic Smile, for some parts I agree with stuff you write. However, I believe that there needs to be a counter-opinion to what you are saying. I chose you instead of others because you are precise and cover a LOT of ground :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic Smile

this is A.net's game whether or not you like it...they DO have a right to say how YOU play it.

I agree with you to a point, although, some of us have a vested interest in the game as well (aka 50 dollars).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic Smile

MMORPG...lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuildWars FAQ

http://www.guildwars.com/faq/default.html
GAME DETAILS
...
What kind of game is Guild Wars?
Guild Wars is a global online roleplaying game. Players can engage in cooperative group combat, in single player adventures, or in large head-to-head guild battles.
...
Is Guild Wars an MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game)?
Rather than labeling Guild Wars an MMORPG, we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game).

Maybe you meant it's not an MMORPG (as stated), which is correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic Smile

How is being able to solo 4 lvl 28 monsters at lvl 20 roleplaying. How can you truely roleplay alone...I mean hell if you can, might as well go sit in a corner, be cheaper then crapping out 50 bucks for GW.

Yeah, the solo 4 lvl 28 monters is out of hand I imagine (at least without requiring extreme skill... after all, Conan could probably do it, and most of us did save Tyria :-), but as far as the solo: two things
1)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuildWars FAQ

Can my character be killed by other players?
You can choose to join in competitive missions and receive acclaim for winning against other gamers, or you can reap the rewards of solo adventures or cooperative team missions with an entirely different set of challenges.
...
Do you have to be in a guild to play Guild Wars?
Although there are many positive aspects to belonging to a guild, players have access to a wide variety of solo adventuring possibilities as well as team cooperative and competitive missions that will ensure you of many of those gaming sessions that run into the wee hours, no matter your playing style.

Of course they mention missions in the faq in both places, but solo 'adventuring' is up to you to decide. I, myself, cannot handle extremely repetitive tasks (such as nolani farming) for very long. This means that adventuring for me is exploring and hunting beasties such as tales of dragonslayers and such.

2) It's a matter of opinion. Some of us longtime DnD players remember Solo Adventures and Choose Your Own Adventure books (and some of us actually liked them). I think it has more to do with degree of imagination (I, myself, have a pet for every character that keeps me 'company :-). Besides, quite a number of people play the elder scrolls games (as well as are looking forward to Oblivion) and it's solo. Guild Wars costs about the same price as the new one will cost I believe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic Smile

Besides this isn't a RPG...AS STATED...stop wasting our time. You can't COMPETE alone, if you disagree see previous sentences...besides no one is forcing you to play...go play WoW and get your guarenteed "godly" weapons...

Again, that is not the case (AS STATED).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic Smile

What you refer to is POWERGAMING...(the wanting to run around soloing everything, the having great items for little work, etc...)
Go get a one player game and apply God Mode and leave the rest of us better off.
If you are going to buy a multiplayer game...play with other people.
If your just bitching because you liked doing no work with your solo build to get uber items/armor and show off...grow up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic Smile

My warrior can solo those birds, in fact it's not even really hard with the damage absorbtion and armor bonuses. It hasn't cost me much at all to get 6 abs and the armor bonuses are from skills. Cheapest way: Major Abs Rune, 1,5k ascalon boots, -2 shield.

Are you wearing full Ascalon armour, or are you just using the 'broken' absorption the boots provide in a similar manner to the way knight's boots work? If you are, then that would be considered POWERGAMING by many people, and not playing the game it was meant to play (read the decriptions on the knight's boots in say Korean, Italian, or French. I personally have done that in the past but look for to the day when they 'fix' that so knight's armour (other than boots) and ascalon armour (other than boots) will mean something. Unless you are 'roleplaying' like those guys wearing gladiator's armour with knights/ascalon boots :-).

P.S. My monk (Van) has both drok armour and invinci/la armour. We (me and my spitey buddy) tried doing UW, but he has to go N/Mo because I get owned too much and he has to rez me. After a while (short while) we got bored (post-nerf droprate) and stopped doing it at all. The time and effort wasn't worth it to us. I did get my spider (Capn Stabbin) with a good group though :-)

CyberNigma · Jan 06, 2006, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Continued... (If I can do that, sorry if I'm not supposed to - netiquette-wise I mean)...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic Smile

I get dye all the time...if your expecting to see black everyday...I got 2 purple 1 blue and a green just today and I only played for 3 hours. There are plenty of *high lvl* drops all the time. I see decent golds drop all over desert and after...it isnt always mine I admit and none were perfect but PERFECT item drops shouldn't be poping out of everything.

I think I can help on this topic, which seems to be the biggest argument in the forums that I have seen (concerning drops/rarities/frequencies). I believe everyone may be right. My first cahracter to finish the game (Zellac and his warthog Worf) never got a black dye, got maybe 1 or 2 gold drops, but not much else worth anything. He still had enough to get droks armour (full set of knights as I didn't know about the boots cheat - later when I found out I got plate except boots, because of the hog on the breastplate :-). Zellac was good at getting greens (outside greens) when the expansion came out, but nothing else.

After over 1000 hours of playing, my second character (a monk) went out to do the quests (didn't care for doing the missions again as that's like playing a regular game over and over to me) and started getting some golds and even my first black dye. My monk wouldn't get greens though. In my group of friends, we can usually predict which characters will get the good drops, some will get more than others, and some will get nothing).

The theory we have come to (and we have absolutely no proof, but since ANet is keeping its lips tight concerning drop ratios, they can't really knock us for speculating based upon some collective experience) is that each character has some kind of random number generated for it upon creation. Somehow this random number is used when entering a zone (or when items drop) to determine if you get anything good. I can take Zell out and kill tons of ettins, and get nothing. I can then take Van (my monk) out and do the same runs and get 3-7 gold each time (a few runs for each char) plus a ton of purples. Of course the auto-nerf still works on all characters as eventually you'll get nothing on any char. Obviously, from this the greens are setup a bit differently or use different numbers to compare to you char's number. Those chars I know that get good drops consistently - some never get greens (or never have), others get them periodically. Obviously the drops aren't just completely random. The reason I say this with certainty is this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuildWars Update Archive

Update - Friday, September 16
Fixed a bug introduced in the Sorrow's Furnace Update that was causing unequal loot distribution among party members.

So they are using some kind of system (or were) that is not just a simple random decision at drop time equally among players and/or henchies (ignoring the obvious -nothing's truly random- argument of course). Some people may have 4 characters that were generated 'lucky' - for lack of a better term. I can tell on my account the 1st and 4th chars are unlucky, the 2nd is pretty lucky, and the 3rd looks like she may be lucky, but she's fairly inexperienced. Maybe some other people can look at this idea and give some better input. If there is a number generated within a range, and a number chosen for the zone/drops (or even if it's a number specific to whether you get drops, not who gets drops) then there could be some skewing. For example, 1-10 (simplicity) - Zell has 1, Van has 5, and a number chosen is 3 or 7 (well Van has a good chance either way of at least getting something whereas Zell, being at the extreme, only get one decent chance. All of this is simplified for explanation, but several of us believe something similar is the case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic Smile

All previous aside I do agree with you A.net needs to do something about quest/mission rewards as well as implementing some sort of benefit to harder monsters vs. load of griffons/ettins/you get the idea, as well as some reason to explore the whole map vs. repeat farming of specific areas...IDS/UW/FoW

Yeah, after 1mil experience for Zell, I could care less about XP rewards for high level quests (repeatable).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic Smile

Just so the last paragraph is constructive...it would be nice to see all weapon combonations available in PvE be it through missions/quests/far away collectors...with only the skin being special to gold drops. Meaning some skins are not collectorable...as well as some skins be only from collectors...please. It's not like the rare skins have to be pretty...

I finally had to break down and buy a longsword the other day (max dmg) because I was either getting crappy ones (or in the case of crafter/collector longswords, they put a stupid shortsword/gladius skin on it - a longsword that's short). I did so not because it was better, but because I think Zell looks neat with a big-assed sword and a fat, hearty lvl 20 pig (and a hog breastplate). Btw, I am collecting the different sword and shield skins and have 3 sets of droks armour, 1 set of henge armour - the highest level ringmail that still looks like pre-searing armour :-) (never bought 15k and can't afford fissure). That's what I like. I like showing them off to my friends. They like showing their stuff off. Otherwise its just another dungeon siege.

Illidan · Jan 06, 2006, 10:18 AM // 10:18

/double agree

Please more challening Missions in Chapter 2

Red Sonya · Jan 06, 2006, 10:59 AM // 10:59

[If you are soloing for wealth, you have no moral ground as A.net is OBVIOUSLY AGAINST IT...]

They are? Funny that, maybe you should go back and read Gailes comments about farming. ANET is NOT against farming, ANET is against BOT farming. You're just jealous cause you don't have anything or everything others have. Too bad. I don't have a single invici anything, but, I love to farm what I can with just my normal build. And I can farm a lot of areas and make lots of plat. If you spent more time playing/farming you'd have these things also. But, you seem to think just because you can't get them easily no one else should either. lol

Independent farming does affect the economy, but, the bot farmers affect it even more because they farm more often and all the time. As more and more plat pours into the economy than items there's always going to be inflation to a point. Not everyone jumps on the charge them as much as you can band wagon. And because of bot farmers it does force others to independent farm and pretty soon everyone has to farm to get the items they want or the plat they need to buy something. That's just the way of the online game worlds, I don't know of a single one that has a steady unchanging economy over time.

A good combatant is to form a "Farming Guild" where you all farm for "each other" and as a group you can get things much faster than as an individual because you can kill things faster. The only drawback to this is scammers joining them to get their items and then leave. I saw this happen in EQ when Epic quests were popular. People would join, get their Epic weapon and then disappear. Some people are just sad sad beings real NOOBS.

But, what makes GW's unique once again you DON'T NEED fissure armor and there are many good collectors weapons out there that can be modded to be just as good or even better (customizing them) than gold dropped items. So, some of you are just making mountains out of mole hills about farmers and the economy. And especially FISSURE armor. Gesh are you really that hung up on a LOOK and a VANITY item?? lol Now that is pretty childish.

LouAl · Jan 06, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Good Crap everyone!

Do you hate the 55 build cuz you don't have one?
Do you hate soloing because you can't do it well?
Do you hate everything that doesn't fit in with your idea of fun?

I have about 35 plat from all 4 of my characters (obviously I am not a hardcore farmer), but I love trying to find ways to solo enemies. The part I love the most is that it is dang hard to find a skill set that works against more than just one type of monster.

Let people have fun in the game however they want. I am pretty sure that Anet doesn't really hate farmers (real farmers not bot farmers), they bought the game and will probably buy the expansion. Why would they hate them? For increasing the companies revenue? Sounds pretty lame to me.

If you hate all the bugs/exploits/cheats/etc., then don't use them. I love when Anet makes the game harder, but it doesn't always mean that they need to nerf skills or builds.

EDIT:

I do not have an invincimonk, but maybe that is cuz my monk is only lvl 15. And I have never been griffon farming even though I have a warrior that I could use. I tried the Incinvimesmer that I found in this forum, but it was very difficult to play effectively. I just play the game for fun, and btw that is the same reason that I write in this forum. I am not sure why, but I can still have fun in a game that I am not the richest/most powerful/best/strongest/with most items.

Xenrath · Jan 06, 2006, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

I agree with you to a point, although, some of us have a vested interest in the game as well (aka 50 dollars).

About the 50 dollars thing/you bought the game, that's a common misunderstanding with games/software in general. The reality is you don't. All you pay for is the priviledge of playing their game. In essence you are paying Anet/NCSoft so that they give you permission to play their game. In the world of the EULA, you effectively have no ownership, and no automatic right to play the game or anything at all. All control and power is with the developer/publisher etc. Take it from someone who's worked in the software industry, they could decide tomorrow to turn off the servers and stop people playing (and it would be perfectly legal, all in the rules).

Keyote · Jan 06, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

[If you are soloing for wealth, you have no moral ground as A.net is OBVIOUSLY AGAINST IT...]

They are? Funny that, maybe you should go back and read Gailes comments about farming. ANET is NOT against farming, ANET is against BOT farming.

Yeah well whatever Gaile said, it's pretty obvious they dont like real players farming either. Drops everywhere are beyond a joke for a reason.

Numa Pompilius · Jan 06, 2006, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyote

Drops everywhere are beyond a joke

Sheerest rubbish.
It's not ANets fault that nothing except gold perfect is worth anything any more, nor were gold perfect items more common in the past than they are now.

Manic Smile · Jan 06, 2006, 11:05 PM // 23:05

I won't flame a man for vocing his opinion as long as he keeps the bullshit out of it...yes it's subjective but take it as you(readers) will. I see no need to flame anything you(poster) said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberNigma

I agree with you to a point, although, some of us have a vested interest in the game as well (aka 50 dollars).

Agreed...that gives you the right to submit desires to A.net. I'm am only against people whining constantly about A.net making changes to their game for the purpose of keeping their intension from being waylaid by exploits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberNigma

It's a matter of opinion. Some of us longtime DnD players remember Solo Adventures and Choose Your Own Adventure books (and some of us actually liked them). I think it has more to do with degree of imagination (I, myself, have a pet for every character that keeps me 'company :-). Besides, quite a number of people play the elder scrolls games (as well as are looking forward to Oblivion) and it's solo. Guild Wars costs about the same price as the new one will cost I believe.

Yep...old school D and D here and I agree I enjoyed solo table top, Torment, BG, BG2, and the Fallout series (special not D&D) but all "single player" games. In a MMO the forcus is interaction...soloing is fine I do it...but when soloing is a detrement AS SEEN BY A.net if mho isn't enough then it should be "nerfed"...else why be multiplayer. Perhaps I got a bit overzelous but the truth still is no one can claim solo farming isn't having a large impact on GW society...be it good or bad iyo. Just look at all the posts on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberNigma

Are you wearing full Ascalon armour, or are you just using the 'broken' absorption the boots provide in a similar manner to the way knight's boots work? If you are, then that would be considered POWERGAMING by many people, and not playing the game it was meant to play (read the decriptions on the knight's boots in say Korean, Italian, or French. I personally have done that in the past but look for to the day when they 'fix' that so knight's armour (other than boots) and ascalon armour (other than boots) will mean something. Unless you are 'roleplaying' like those guys wearing gladiator's armour with knights/ascalon boots :-).

I agree I am "abusing" it as well but I swear you would hear not one word of complaint if they fixed it. I am apposed to exploits but I like getting a party and being competitiv in PvP as well.

This game makes RPing pretty difficult...the whole getting into it...and I mean more the player enviroment then any game design...shouting needs to be removed and made distance related. I need a way to talk to people not in my party without heaing that moron spam his crap 50 damn more times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberNigma

P.S. My monk (Van) has both drok armour and invinci/la armour. We (me and my spitey buddy) tried doing UW, but he has to go N/Mo because I get owned too much and he has to rez me. After a while (short while) we got bored (post-nerf droprate) and stopped doing it at all. The time and effort wasn't worth it to us. I did get my spider (Capn Stabbin) with a good group though :-)

I'm not placing blame on anyone who has used any solo build(short of extreme cases)(think back yard pot growers for own use vs. large scale drug dealers) but those that are angered by the call for balancing.

Manic Smile · Jan 06, 2006, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Sheerest rubbish.
It's not ANets fault that nothing except gold perfect is worth anything any more, nor were gold perfect items more common in the past than they are now.

cough *farming* cough...it's true in all online games...but of course all online games have farming problems...I wish A.net would just take hardline stand on it all and start banning extreme abusers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouAl

Let people have fun in the game however they want. I am pretty sure that Anet doesn't really hate farmers (real farmers not bot farmers), they bought the game and will probably buy the expansion. Why would they hate them? For increasing the companies revenue? Sounds pretty lame to me.

If you hate all the bugs/exploits/cheats/etc., then don't use them. I love when Anet makes the game harder, but it doesn't always mean that they need to nerf skills or builds.

This is a common good...what one person does effects all of us and our respective game experience. Even if I dont' use the exploit I still get fed over by others. If you don't believe me just try and get a real party for ToA quests vs. farming.

Manic Smile · Jan 06, 2006, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

[If you are soloing for wealth, you have no moral ground as A.net is OBVIOUSLY AGAINST IT...]

They are? Funny that, maybe you should go back and read Gailes comments about farming.

Gaile isn't perfect...IDS anyone?...nor do we always interpret her correctly...my point is if they wanted high lvl solo farming why do they keep trying to nerf it away? What is a person who does nothing but solo farm over and over without doing anything else in game community but a bot anyway.

The rest I agree with you and I'm not even bothering with fissure armor..and I am by no means poor...i can SS if you need. My point is this...fissure armor is an end game armor, people should have to work for it not just exploit unintended skill synergy. You should not be able to make a 55 monk in 3 days get the gear in maybe a week and have FoW in a month...ok...I have no idea real times for complete new player versus long time players just making a monk but either way we all know FoW armor has absolutely no meaning any longer.(This kinda assumes I have no cash to start but have knowledge of the game as well as a good bit of time to farm for runs and later for the the runes and the offhand/FFS...forget the HoD)

Keyote · Jan 06, 2006, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Sheerest rubbish.
It's not ANets fault that nothing except gold perfect is worth anything any more, nor were gold perfect items more common in the past than they are now.

Actually it IS Anets fault.

They put in collector and green items, therefore anything but perfect gold items are useless. Why would anyone have use for anything else?

Manic Smile · Jan 06, 2006, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyote

Actually it IS Anets fault.

They put in collector and green items, therefore anything but perfect gold items are useless. Why would anyone have use for anything else?

perfects were useless before that...greens were a response to lvl the field

Keyote · Jan 07, 2006, 12:21 AM // 00:21

And now everyone has everything they need and hunts for perfect weapons because they're the only thing that might be better than we already have. We find anything less not worth looking for because Anet made it pointless.

Sai of Winter · Jan 07, 2006, 12:30 AM // 00:30

This topic seems to be more about people against solo farming and playing how people want others to play it like them. I think everyone should calm down about nerfing this or that, and stop flaming one another about how "jealous" they are because they can't make money like them. I think everyone should leave each other alone. If they want to play the game this way (i.e. soloing and what not), then let them play the game that way, it's their choice. If they want to play the game the other way (i.e. groups/henches and hard work), then let them. You can always find more people that want to play in groups, it's your choice too. It's all about having fun in your own way and not caring about another's style of gameplay.

I have a 55hp Monk and I rarely solo farm with him, only for a little while. And I never farm UW with my Monk because I have no need for ectos or getting FoW armor. I farm because to get better items for myself and guild members/people I know, save up some money for new armor (rarely now) and save up some money for the next chapter, then I am set. I do all that because of boredom, since I've beaten the game four times with my characters. But I'm not rich like most because I get bored of farming too, I have little money in storage (maybe 300k).

I play the game in groups also because I just feel like helping people with quests/missions and I find that way a little more fun. Having funny conversations with the groups and not knowing what random thing might happen during the quests/missions. Also, give some advice when people progress further into the game

Juhanah · Jan 07, 2006, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyote

Yeah well whatever Gaile said, it's pretty obvious they dont like real players farming either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray, 07-24-2005, 03:46 AM

On the subject of nerfing, farming, and bot catching, I think that you will see some changes in the coming weeks. It's true that an effort to remove bots can adversely affect farmers, and honestly, we have nothing against an honest farmer!

They have nothing against farmers and i don't see why they should. But farmer these days are doing the exact same thing as a bot do. The only difference is they waste their time doing it instead of having a program do it.

The only thing i have against farming is that there's nothing else than farmers everywhere you go. I did all the SF quest alone with NPC because everyone else was forming farming group. I never had a chance to go in FoW or UW because i could never find anyone who wasnt there to farm.

Even GuildwarsGuru forum is all about farming now. Tyrian Explorers' league forum should change its name to Tyrian Farmers' Association. The Campfire forum is all about farming builds and people get criticized if they post a build that can't solo UW or FoW. Screenshot exposition is all about your new Fow Armor and Riverside inn all about why everyone love/hate farming... Even this post turned about a "love/hate farming" while it was talking about game difficulty at first.

But on topic i also love when Anet make the game more challenging. I love when i come up to a diversified group of monsters that can shatter your enchantment or interupt your skills. I think all monster groups should be more diversified.. not 1 group of warrior here, 1 group of mesmer there and 1 group of ranger over there. They should all be mixed up. I think the time i had more fun with my monk was when our party was splitted into 2 group and i had to run between each other to keep everyone alive.

Maiyn · Jan 07, 2006, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Yeah, I love farming too, but I completely agree with you. I absolutely love that it isn't mindless farming like Diablo 2.. the economy is actually pretty decent.. and they keep changing them game to make us HONOURABLE farmers adapt. It really keeps things so interesting, and I love them for it.

CHEERS ANET!! <3